Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/20/2000 02:14 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                               
                         April 20, 2000                                                                                         
                            2:14 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pete Kott, Chairman                                                                                              
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Jeannette James                                                                                                  
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 40(RLS) am                                                                                   
Proposing amendments  to the Constitution  of the State  of Alaska                                                              
providing that the governor and lieutenant  governor be elected by                                                              
a majority vote;  and changing the term of office  of the governor                                                              
and lieutenant governor.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSJR 40(RLS) am OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SJR 40                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CONST AM:ELECTION & TERMS OF GOV & LT GOV                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/29/00      2776     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 3/29/00      2776     (S)  FIN                                                                                                 
 4/03/00               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/03/00               (S)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 4/04/00               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/04/00               (S)  Moved CS(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                      
 4/04/00      2856     (S)  FIN RPT CS 7DP 1NR  SAME TITLE                                                                      
 4/04/00      2856     (S)  DP: TORGERSON, PARNELL, PHILLIPS,                                                                   
 4/04/00      2856     (S)  GREEN, PETE KELLY, WILKEN, LEMAN;                                                                   
 4/04/00      2856     (S)  NR: ADAMS                                                                                           
 4/04/00      2856     (S)  FISCAL NOTE (GOV)                                                                                   
 4/06/00               (S)  RLS AT 11:45 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 4/06/00               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 4/14/00               (S)  RLS AT   1:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                     
 4/15/00               (S)  RLS AT   1:15 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                     
 4/15/00               (S)  RLS AT   3:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                     
 4/16/00      3162     (S)  RLS TO CAL W/CS 1DNP 1OR 4/16                                                                       
                            NEW TITLE                                                                                           
 4/16/00      3162     (S)  PREVIOUS FISCAL NOTE (GOV)                                                                          
 4/16/00      3165     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 4/16/00      3166     (S)  RLS CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                         
 4/16/00      3166     (S)  AM NO 1   OFFERED BY TIM KELLY                                                                      
 4/16/00      3166     (S)  AM NO 1     ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                    
 4/16/00      3167     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING Y15 N5                                                                    
 4/16/00      3167     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSJR 40(RLS) AM                                                               
 4/16/00      3167     (S)  PASSED Y14 N6                                                                                       
 4/16/00      3167     (S)  KELLY TIM NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                                                                 
 4/17/00      3185     (S)  RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING                                                                   
 4/17/00      3185     (S)  HELD ON RECONSIDERATION TO 4/18 CAL                                                                 
 4/18/00      3229     (S)  MVD TO TOP OF CAL IN 3RD RDG ON RECON                                                               
 4/18/00      3229     (S)  RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 2                                                                           
                            UNAN CONSENT                                                                                        
 4/18/00      3230     (S)  AM NO 2     ADOPTED Y15 N5                                                                          
 4/18/00      3230     (S)  AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING                                                                      
 4/18/00      3230     (S)  PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y14 N6                                                                    
 4/18/00      3256     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 4/18/00      3274     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 4/18/00      3274     (H)  JUD, FIN                                                                                            
 4/20/00               (H)  FIN AT  9:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                   
 4/20/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 4/20/00               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND, Staff                                                                                                                
   to Senator Robin Taylor                                                                                                      
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 30                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced CSSJR 40(RLS) am.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
GAIL FENUMIAI, Election Program Specialist                                                                                      
Division of Elections                                                                                                           
Office of the Lieutenant Governor                                                                                               
P.O. Box 110017                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99811-0017                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSJR 40(RLS) am.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TIM KELLY                                                                                                               
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 101                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  As the originator  of Section 2, testified on                                                              
CSSJR 40(RLS) am.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
AVRUM GROSS                                                                                                                     
424 North Franklin                                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in  opposition to SJR 40 on his own                                                              
behalf.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TREFON ANGASAN                                                                                                                  
Bristol Bay Native Association (BBNA)                                                                                           
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in opposition to SJR  40 on behalf                                                              
of the BBNA.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT WILLARD, JR.                                                                                                             
Alaska Native Brotherhood (ANB)                                                                                                 
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in opposition to SJR  40 on behalf                                                              
of the ANB.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM BALDWIN, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                         
Governmental Affairs Section                                                                                                    
Civil Division (Juneau)                                                                                                         
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on technical aspects  and possible                                                              
unintended  consequences  relating  to  CSSJR  40(RLS)  am;  urged                                                              
members to develop a good record to facilitate preclearance.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-69, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PETE KOTT  called the House Judiciary  Standing Committee                                                              
meeting to  order at  2:14 p.m.   Members present  at the  call to                                                              
order  were  Representatives  Kott,  Green,  Rokeberg,  James  and                                                              
Croft.   Representatives  Kerttula  and Murkowski  arrived as  the                                                              
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SJR 40 - CONST AM:ELECTION & TERMS OF GOV & LT GOV                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced  that the committee would be  taking up CS                                                              
For Senate Joint  Resolution No. 40(RLS) am,  proposing amendments                                                              
to the  Constitution  of the State  of Alaska  providing that  the                                                              
governor and  lieutenant governor be  elected by a  majority vote;                                                              
and changing  the term  of office of  the governor and  lieutenant                                                              
governor.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0053                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM  POUND,   Staff  to   Senator  Robin   Taylor,  Alaska   State                                                              
Legislature, indicated  that SJR 40  was brought up  because, with                                                              
the exception  of the 1998  "confusion election,"  the legislature                                                              
has not worked  with a governor or lieutenant  governor elected by                                                              
the majority  of the  voters since 1970,  when Governor  Bill Egan                                                              
received 51.34  percent of  the votes.   This lack of  majority in                                                              
every  election tends  to create  low voter  turnout; many  people                                                              
feel that  their votes do  not not count if  they do not  vote for                                                              
the right person.   He explained that SJR 40 will  give the public                                                              
the opportunity to  vote, should [the legislature]  decide to pass                                                              
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  told members that under  SJR 40 the races  for governor                                                              
and lieutenant governor  will be determined by a  majority vote of                                                              
50 percent  plus one  vote.  For  simplicity, the resolution  will                                                              
only  address   gubernatorial  races.    The  next   Alaska  State                                                              
Legislature  will be responsible  for the  runoff election,  which                                                              
will be  handled in law  as opposed to  by resolution.   Currently                                                              
more than  half of  Alaska's population  is already familiar  with                                                              
the  runoff  process  because  it is  required  in  the  Anchorage                                                              
municipal election.   Mr. Pound concluded  that SJR 40  means that                                                              
the   next    statewide   elected   officials   will    truly   be                                                              
representatives of the majority of Alaskans.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0181                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT pointed out  that there have been legislative                                                              
races where there were only two people,  and the vote was so close                                                              
that neither received  50 percent of the vote -  for example, 49.8                                                              
percent against  49.5 percent.   He  wondered whether,  if neither                                                              
gubernatorial candidate got 50 percent,  they would have to have a                                                              
runoff against each other.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  explained  that there  always have  been at least  five                                                              
parties in the  gubernatorial race; therefore, the  possibility of                                                              
that happening  would be slim.   Presently for the  governor's and                                                              
lieutenant  governor's race,  listed are  the Alaska  Independence                                                              
Party,  Democratic  Party  of  Alaska,   Green  Party  of  Alaska,                                                              
Libertarian  Party,  Republican  Moderate  Party,  Inc.,  and  the                                                              
Republican Party of Alaska.  There  are also two limited political                                                              
parties:  the Natural Law Party and the Reform Party.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked whether Arizona had tried this.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND said that  he is not sure.  He explained  that one state                                                              
had set  up something, but  it was a  different type  of situation                                                              
where it went back to the legislature  to make the final decision.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0332                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT  asked whether Louisiana  has a similar system.   He                                                              
said that  he believes in Louisiana  the House and  Senate members                                                              
all  run in  the  primary  election, and  if  one member  gets  50                                                              
percent plus one vote, then that  person is automatically declared                                                              
the winner.   If no candidate  receives 50 percent plus  one vote,                                                              
then the two top candidates advance to the general election.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  asked whether  [candidates] could be  of the                                                              
same party.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT affirmed that.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT requested clarification  that [the  governor                                                              
and lieutenant  governor who were  elected under this  new system]                                                              
would be sworn in  on the first Monday of December,  as usual, but                                                              
if there was  a runoff the date  would be changed to  the third of                                                              
February.  He asked why they would wait so long.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  explained that  it was a request  from the  Division of                                                              
Elections in order to give them time.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT pointed  out that  ballots are  sent to  the                                                              
military worldwide 60 days before the election.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND affirmed that.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0503                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GAIL   FENUMIAI,   Election  Program   Specialist,   Division   of                                                              
Elections,  Office of  the  Lieutenant Governor,  advised  members                                                              
that the  Division of  Elections has said  that a runoff  election                                                              
could take place within the time  frame put forth by CSSJR 40(RLS)                                                              
am, but it does  not take into account recounts  or any litigation                                                              
that may take  place after the general election.   It appears that                                                              
the window set forth  by CSSJR 40(RLS) am would allow  for about a                                                              
four-day  period  where  any recounts  or  litigation  could  take                                                              
place, but a  statewide recount would take longer  than four days.                                                              
With litigation,  she added,  they have no  control over  how long                                                              
that would take.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0570                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TIM KELLY,  Alaska State Legislature, [who  had originated                                                              
the amendment  to SJR  40 that  added Section  2] wondered  if the                                                              
same thing  is true  with the  general election.   He pointed  out                                                              
that the governor  takes office the first Monday  in December, and                                                              
they do not certify until November  30.  He asked if they have the                                                              
same problem with the status quo.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI responded  that in 1994 a statewide  recount was done                                                              
in  three days;  however,  no  litigation  was filed  after  that.                                                              
There  is the  opportunity for  litigation  to be  filed ten  days                                                              
after an  election is certified.   She  noted that the  time frame                                                              
set forth did allow for the 60-day  special advanced ballots to be                                                              
sent to the military.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0605                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  wondered if  the  Division of  Elections                                                              
keeps track of  the lateness of the overseas ballots,  and if they                                                              
would be able to compile typical general election returns.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI explained  that in the 1998 general  election she was                                                              
asked how  many special  advanced military  ballots they  had sent                                                              
out, and she had  indicated they sent 382.  She  said she does not                                                              
know, off the top  of her head, how many of those  came back.  She                                                              
indicated that  they send  the official  ballots to those  voters,                                                              
and  they  have  the  opportunity  to  vote  both;  their  special                                                              
advanced  ballot is  held until  the fifteenth  day following  the                                                              
election,  and if  their official  ballot  does not  come in,  the                                                              
special advanced ballot is counted.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked whether  the special advanced ballot                                                              
has all of the candidates on it.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FENUMIAI  responded that  a  special  advanced ballot  for  a                                                              
general election would  be sent with a list of  candidates who had                                                              
appeared on the  primary election ballot, with  instructions.  She                                                              
indicated voters  can either write in  the name of a  candidate or                                                              
write  in the  party affiliation  that  they choose  to vote  for.                                                              
They are informed  that if they write  in the name of  a candidate                                                              
that does  not advance to the  general election, then it  would be                                                              
an invalid vote.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0747                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  asked what the  sequence of events is  for a                                                              
normal election.   And if there is  a runoff, why does  it take so                                                              
long?                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FENUMIAI  explained  that  [the   division]  had  prepared  a                                                              
tentative  calender  based  on the  2002  gubernatorial  election.                                                              
Election day  is Tuesday, November  5, and a target  certification                                                              
date would be  November 29.  They cannot certify  any earlier than                                                              
the  fifteenth  day  after the  election  because  those  overseas                                                              
ballots  have fifteen  days  to be  received  at  the Division  of                                                              
Elections.   In response  to a question  by Representative  Green,                                                              
Ms. Fenumiai clarified  that November 20 would be  the last day to                                                              
receive military  overseas ballots.   It takes two to  three weeks                                                              
to  certify   a  statewide  election   when  there   are  multiple                                                              
candidates.   Based on the time line  if a runoff were  needed and                                                              
no recounts  or litigation took  place, the Division  of Elections                                                              
would  mail  special advanced  ballots  on  November 30,  and  the                                                              
runoff election  day would be  set on the  January 28, or  60 days                                                              
from the date that the special advanced ballots were sent out.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if that is by statute.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FENUMIAI  replied  that  the  special  advanced  ballots,  by                                                              
statute,  are  to be  sent  out 60  days  prior to  any  statewide                                                              
primary, general or special election.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked whether that is a state law.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FENUMIAI  affirmed  that  it   is  in  state  statute.    She                                                              
continued. The day after the election  is certified, if there were                                                              
no recounts  requested, the  sixtieth day past  that day  would be                                                              
January  28, which  would  be election  day.    The fifteenth  day                                                              
following that would  be the February 12, and  certification could                                                              
take place  shortly after that.   All the precinct work  and other                                                              
absentee  and question  ballots would  be  reviewed following  the                                                              
election, starting  about the tenth  day after the election.   She                                                              
added  that with  one  race the  certification  process  is a  bit                                                              
easier than with multiple races on a ballot.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN requested clarification  about the time line.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI  explained that  based on the  calender for  the 2002                                                              
gubernatorial  election, February  12 would  be the fifteenth  day                                                              
following the election day, and the  third Monday or Tuesday would                                                              
be  February  17,  which  would be  the  date  that  the  proposed                                                              
amendment  to the Constitution  of  the State  of Alaska [SJR  40]                                                              
would have the governor sworn in.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0970                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  asked  whether  the  Accu-Vote  process                                                              
shortens the certification at all.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FENUMIAI  said it  does  somewhat, but  not  by  weeks.   For                                                              
precincts  with   Accu-Vote  machines,   it  makes   the  precinct                                                              
materials easier  to go through when  the state review  board goes                                                              
through  audits  and  looks  through  all  the  precinct  results.                                                              
However, there still are more than  170 hand-count precincts where                                                              
it takes a lot longer.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  said he is  still wondering if  other states                                                              
are doing this on the gubernatorial level.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1039                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI  indicated that Arizona  did it for one  election; it                                                              
was a constitutional  amendment that passed.  However,  they had a                                                              
gubernatorial race in which no candidate  received 50 percent plus                                                              
one, so  they had a  runoff election  in January or  February, and                                                              
[the  constitutional amendment]  was  then  repealed, right  after                                                              
that, because the voters and the candidates did not like it.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  wondered  if  Ms. Fenumiai  knew  what  the                                                              
turnout was in that gubernatorial race.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI indicated she didn't  have that information but could                                                              
get it from the Arizona Division of Elections.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT requested  confirmation  that basically  the                                                              
main  constraint in  the time  line is  the 60 days  given to  the                                                              
military.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI clarified  that the 60 days is the  biggest period of                                                              
time  that [the  Division of  Elections]  needs to  make sure  the                                                              
voters get their ballots.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1109                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  asked if this  particular year is  the worst                                                              
situation  as  far as  when  the  third  Tuesday comes  after  the                                                              
certification; there  are only four days, he said,  and most times                                                              
there will more than a week.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI said she is not sure.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  wondered if [the Division  of Elections] was                                                              
able to do  a single ballot in  a week before the  more streamline                                                              
voting capability [Accu-Vote].                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. FENUMIAI responded no; they had  used the Accu-Vote machine in                                                              
the  September  election.   The  certification process  can  start                                                              
before the last day to receive military  and overseas ballots, and                                                              
they generally  start the  tenth day  following the election  day.                                                              
She believes  that they had finished  on the following  Friday, so                                                              
it took  seven days  to certify  the election  - day 17  following                                                              
election day.   If they look at  the dates presented [in  SJR 40],                                                              
it would  be about February 14,  2003, and the third  Monday falls                                                              
on February 17, 2003.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said it would  be well down the line, even in                                                              
a close year like this.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1212                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wondered  what would happen if the statute                                                              
were changed from  60 days to 45 days, and whether  it would cause                                                              
any problems or disenfranchise the overseas folks.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FENUMIAI  replied that  the  potential  is  there for  it  to                                                              
disenfranchise some  voters.  She said  they do not have  a way to                                                              
record when  those people receive  their ballots.  She  noted that                                                              
they have  had problems getting  materials just to  Kodiak because                                                              
of weather problems.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1264                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY stated:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     In   terms   of  the   legislature,   as  set   by   the                                                                   
     constitution, we  are supposed to meet by  the fourth of                                                                   
     January  or  otherwise  prescribed  by  law,  and  we've                                                                   
     otherwise prescribed ourselves,  that in election years,                                                                   
     the third  Tuesday in January, and in  non-gubernatorial                                                                   
     years, it is the second Tuesday in January.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The way that  the constitutional amendment  is framed is                                                                   
     we've  also said for  that third  Monday in February  or                                                                   
     otherwise  prescribed  by law.   If  the  constitutional                                                                   
     amendment  passes, it  would  be very  possible for  the                                                                   
     legislature to  come back and enact changes  to election                                                                   
     statutes  (indisc.--simult.  speech).   As I  understand                                                                   
     it,  we have  a  federal requirement  for  some type  of                                                                   
     absentee  ballot   program,  but  there  is   a  federal                                                                   
     postcard absentee  ballot that  we could use  instead of                                                                   
     the 60-day state requirement we're currently using.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     So, I  think what you're going  to find is if,  in fact,                                                                   
     this  constitutional  amendment passes,  you'd  probably                                                                   
     rewrite some  of the election  statutes so that  you can                                                                   
     probably reuse that period between  the general election                                                                   
     and  the third  Monday in February  quite  a bit -  this                                                                   
     statutory change.  But then,  remember, statutory change                                                                   
     has to pass the legislature,  has to be either okayed or                                                                   
     overridden  on the third  floor, has  to be approved  by                                                                   
     the  Department  of  Justice  because  of  the  [Voting]                                                                   
     Rights Act, so it's kind of  an involved process, but it                                                                   
     can  be done.    It probably  shouldn't  be tried  until                                                                   
     after this may or may not pass the public.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1359                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
AVRUM GROSS came forward to testify.   He told members that he has                                                              
been a resident of Alaska for 40  years and has served in a number                                                              
of  positions  in government.    Most  recently, he  was  Attorney                                                              
General  for  six  years,  and  he  indicated  that  he  has  some                                                              
familiarity  with the  election  process.   He  said  that he  was                                                              
involved with the  Hickel v. Hammond election case,  which was one                                                            
of  the most  highly  contested litigations  over  this matter  in                                                              
history.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS told  members he honestly believes this  [SJR 40] is not                                                              
a good  idea, both from  a theoretical  viewpoint and  a practical                                                              
viewpoint.  Unfortunately, it has  a lovely ring to it, as did Mr.                                                              
Pound's comment that  this will result in a governor  who is truly                                                              
representative of  the majority of Alaskans.   Mr. Gross  said  if                                                              
that were  truly what [the resolution]  did, he would  support it,                                                              
but it does not.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  explained that  first, the  purpose of a  gubernatorial                                                              
election is  to find out whom  Alaskans want their governor  to be                                                              
for  four years;  that  is  done with  a  primary election  and  a                                                              
general election.   The existing law  is that the person  who gets                                                              
the most votes  in the gubernatorial election wins,  whether it is                                                              
51 percent or 49  percent [of the vote].  It is  admittedly a very                                                              
imperfect  system, because  one doesn't  really  know whether  the                                                              
person who  gets the plurality  in a gubernatorial  election would                                                              
truly represent  the majority of  Alaskans.  Many Alaskans  do not                                                              
vote,  and  who knows  how  that  would break  out  statistically.                                                              
Although the current  system is imperfect, it is  much better than                                                              
the system proposed in this constitutional amendment [SJR 40].                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS further  explained the way  it would work.  If  the vote                                                              
were split [three ways] at 48 percent,  42 percent and 10 percent,                                                              
this constitutional  amendment [SJR  40] proposes to  hold another                                                              
statewide  election solely  for  the purpose  of  running off  the                                                              
gubernatorial  candidates  as  quickly thereafter  as  the  runoff                                                              
election could be held.  There would  have been an election at the                                                              
end of  August and  one in November,  so this  would be  the third                                                              
statewide election  in four months  - during the depths  of winter                                                              
in Alaska and the middle of the Christmas  season.  That is a time                                                              
absolutely calculated to draw out  the minimal turnout possible in                                                              
any  election.    In  a  general  election,  at  least  there  are                                                              
legislators running and initiatives  on the ballot to bring voters                                                              
into the voting booth as well.  Now,  however, this constitutional                                                              
amendment [SJR 40] proposes to hold  solely a gubernatorial runoff                                                              
in the dead of winter.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  further stated that there  would now be  two candidates                                                              
remaining,  and  one would  get  50.1 percent  of  the  vote.   He                                                              
wondered if  that is  truly representative  among the majority  of                                                              
Alaskans.   Suppose the  candidate that gets  50.1 percent  of the                                                              
votes in  the runoff  election has less  votes than the  candidate                                                              
that got  48 percent of the  votes in the general  election, which                                                              
is highly likely to occur.  There  will be a substantially reduced                                                              
turnout,  and a  vastly  reduced  pot of  Alaskans  will pick  the                                                              
governor.  The  desire should be to have the  governor selected at                                                              
the  largest possible  of  turnout of  statewide  voters, not  the                                                              
smallest - and this would be the smallest.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS  told  members  that  practical  problems  are  equally                                                              
overwhelming.   In addition to having  an election decided  by the                                                              
smallest pool of voters possible,  people will be asked to run for                                                              
governor essentially  three times.  Candidates will  have to raise                                                              
money for  three elections.   The voters  would have  to withstand                                                              
campaigning  for another  month or  two.   And it  would cost  the                                                              
state a great  deal of money to  run another election.   The costs                                                              
to public policy would be substantial.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS pointed  out that  assuming  everything goes  smoothly,                                                              
there is an election in December,  and the governor is elected and                                                              
takes  office in  February,  the legislature  would  have been  in                                                              
session for  a month already.  There  would have been a  lame duck                                                              
governor  whose  budget  was  worthless,  and there  would  be  no                                                              
commissioners  who have  any authority  to deal  with the  subject                                                              
matter of  their legislative  agendas.  There  would be  no budget                                                              
director.  There  would be no one but the  outgoing administration                                                              
for a  full month.   Mr. Gross  said he  supposes that  they could                                                              
change the whole schedule around  if they wanted to, but this [SJR
40]  does  not do  that.    He thinks  it  is  a waste  of  public                                                              
resources.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS concluded  that there  is no  perfect way  to select  a                                                              
governor.   The way  that exists currently  has worked  very well;                                                              
there  have been  some  good governors  in  this  state from  both                                                              
parties.  He  said that there is  no reason to fix  something when                                                              
it is not broken.  The proposed constitutional  amendment [SJR 40]                                                              
will not  result in any better  representation of the  people than                                                              
the current  system.   He believes  that it will  result in  a far                                                              
worse representation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1739                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN clarified that  the special election would be                                                              
toward the end of January, rather than at Christmas.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  indicated it would be  the third election,  however, in                                                              
the depths of winter.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN indicated  his belief  that 50 percent  plus                                                              
one vote  of that reduced number  of voters would still  be better                                                              
than 35 or 39 percent of the larger group.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS asked, "But how about 48 percent of 49 percent?"                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said, "That's true.  You  indicated that was                                                              
a likely.   I would  certainly submit  that that's probably  not a                                                              
likelihood.  If  you got 49 percent in a three-  or four- or five-                                                              
candidate race, the  chances of you getting less  than that later,                                                              
I  would  think, would  be,  very,  very  minimal, but  those  are                                                              
opinions; those aren't facts."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS suggesting  comparing  the  primary election  with  the                                                              
general election  turnout.  Noting  that the gubernatorial  runoff                                                              
wouldn't   include   legislative   races,   congressional   races,                                                              
initiatives, or other  issues, he said he guesses  that [the voter                                                              
turnout] would  be substantially lower  than that for  the primary                                                              
vote.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said these are opinions.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS  agreed   but  said  it  is  borne   out  by  practical                                                              
experience.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT suggested they will  see the results in Anchorage in                                                              
a few weeks  as to whether  the [municipal] runoff election  has a                                                              
lower or higher turnout, because  there will be just one race, and                                                              
there will be no propositions or ballot initiatives.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1835                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES indicated about  four years  ago she  sent a                                                              
letter to  all the people  registered in  her district  who hadn't                                                              
voted, asking  them to send  her a card  back saying why  they did                                                              
not  vote.   She said  she got  a  huge box  of cards  back.   She                                                              
explained that  there is a feeling  out there that  people's votes                                                              
don't count; however, the main reason  that people didn't vote was                                                              
because  they  were  too  busy  doing  something  else.    In  her                                                              
lifetime, she  has been trying  to find a  way to get  more people                                                              
interested in voting.  She has found,  in talking to people on the                                                              
street  or  at the  store  or  on  an airplane,  that  people  are                                                              
disappointed that more  than half of the people do  not select the                                                              
governor.   She  suggested  putting this  proposed  constitutional                                                              
amendment to the vote of the people.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS noted  that only when the legislature  determines that a                                                              
proposed constitutional  amendment makes  good public sense  is it                                                              
supposed to  be put to the people.   He agreed that  if two-thirds                                                              
of the  legislators think  it is  a good idea,  then it  should be                                                              
sent out to the public for a vote.   However, if two-thirds do not                                                              
think it is a good idea, then it should not be sent out.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2022                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  said  he  would  be  willing  to  bet  that                                                              
Arizona,  where  they tried  this  once  and  rejected it,  had  a                                                              
substantially lower  turnout in the  runoff election.  He  said he                                                              
thought  that  Mr.  Gross  did  a  good  job  of  going  over  the                                                              
theoretical  and  practical  issues,  but he  wondered  about  the                                                              
details.  He  referred to page 1,  lines 7 and 8 of  CSSJR 40(RLS)                                                              
am,  indicating the  [constitution]  now says  that the  candidate                                                              
receiving  the  greatest  number   of  votes  shall  be  governor.                                                              
However,  [if amended]  the constitution  is going  to read,  "The                                                              
candidate  receiving at  least 50  percent plus  one of the  votes                                                              
cast for office  shall be governor."  He explained  that it is not                                                              
unheard of to  have very close gubernatorial races.   He asked Mr.                                                              
Gross:   If the runoff  election resulted  in a 49.8  percent vote                                                              
for Governor  A and  49.9 percent  vote for  Governor B,  with 100                                                              
write-ins, who does he think the governor would be?                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS said he didn't know.  He  explained that he was involved                                                              
in  two  statewide  elections  in   which  there  were  two  major                                                              
candidates:   Egan  versus  Hammond,  and Hammond  versus  Hickel.                                                              
Both were decided  by a total of 270 votes out  of several hundred                                                              
votes cast.   He  noted that there  is a history  of that,  and if                                                              
this constitutional amendment [SJR  40] passes, they are basically                                                              
saying  that there  will  be three  elections  for governor  every                                                              
single time.  He  said he cannot imagine that.   He added that his                                                              
political  instinct tells  him  that the  turnout  in Arizona  had                                                              
dropped precipitously and do so here, too.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   CROFT  suggested   that  there   might  be   four                                                              
elections.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS agreed  that if a candidate  had to get 50  percent plus                                                              
one vote,  the state  would have  to keep  having elections  until                                                              
someone got 50 percent plus one.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  pointed out that  there are some  very, very                                                              
close  elections, and  there  are sitting  members  of the  Alaska                                                              
State Legislature  who didn't receive 50 percent  even though they                                                              
were in straight head-to-head races.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  said he assumes  that the  legislature could  deal with                                                              
that in statute,  but at the same time it will  not guarantee that                                                              
someone represents the majority of the voters.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2174                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  recalled a race  that he was  involved in                                                              
where there was  a third-party candidate; he provided  details and                                                              
said  that  situation  can  be devastating.    He  wondered  if  a                                                              
statutory change  restricting the  number of  parties on  a ballot                                                              
would be  a better  fix than  a constitutional  change that  would                                                              
essentially do the same thing.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2285                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  pointed out that  there are constitutional  limitations                                                              
on the ability to  limit parties, as well, to the  extent that the                                                              
state  can prohibit  somebody from  running for  office under  any                                                              
kind of a  party label.  He  restated that the system  is far from                                                              
perfect, and there can be situations  where people are victimized.                                                              
There  also  has been  a  gubernatorial  race  in Alaska  where  a                                                              
governor  received less  than 40  percent of the  vote.   However,                                                              
this type  of a fix [SJR  40] is going  to create many,  many more                                                              
problems than what they have now.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG indicated  there are some  constitutional                                                              
parameters  on  disallowing  or  allowing  additional  parties  to                                                              
participate.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  said from time to  time third parties arise  and create                                                              
real contortions in the democratic  system.  However, if they stay                                                              
around long  enough, the Democrats  or Republicans seem  to absorb                                                              
them.   He thinks  that, in the  long run,  the system  works very                                                              
well.    No  system  is perfect,  and  third  parties  cause  some                                                              
problems,  but  in  the  end they  inject  some  energy  into  the                                                              
political process, and the major  parties swallow them up and take                                                              
some of that energy.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN referred to  the list in  the packet  of the                                                              
Governor/Lieutenant  Governor  election  results  and  cited  some                                                              
figures from it.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-69, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 0020                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TREFON ANGASAN,  Bristol Bay Native Association  (BBNA), testified                                                              
via  teleconference from  Anchorage.   He  informed the  committee                                                              
that BBNA is  opposed to the passage  of SJR 40.   The association                                                              
is opposed  to the process  being utilized.   Mr. Angasan  related                                                              
BBNA's belief  that the proposed  amendment is on the  fast track.                                                              
Usually when there are constitutional  amendments that come before                                                              
the electorate,  there are discussions  in various forums  such as                                                              
community meetings.   However, when there have only  been two days                                                              
to  discuss a  proposed amendment,  it  leaves him  to ponder  the                                                              
impacts to rural Alaska.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ANGASAN expressed  concern  that  [SJR 40]  would  negatively                                                              
impact the  voters in rural  Alaska.   The turnout for  second and                                                              
third  elections will  dwindle, resulting  in the  voice of  rural                                                              
Alaska dwindling  as well.   Furthermore, the election  costs will                                                              
be greater  and the campaign season  will be longer.   Mr. Angasan                                                              
emphasized  that "we"  have a difficult  time  coming out for  the                                                              
general  election  under the  current  process.   He  said  [BBNA]                                                              
believes [SJR  40] will have a  tremendous impact on the  voice of                                                              
the  minority  voters and  will  be  challenged under  the  Voting                                                              
Rights Act.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0213                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  WILLARD, JR.,  Alaska Native  Brotherhood (ANB),  informed                                                              
the  committee that  he is  from  Angoon, although  he resides  in                                                              
Juneau.  He told  the committee that the ANB opposes  SJR 40.  The                                                              
statewide elections  have served  well, and  [ANB] sees  no reason                                                              
for  a  change such  as  that  called for  in  SJR  40.   This  is                                                              
particularly true  in Southeast Alaska, where cultural  and tribal                                                              
activity  is  timed   to  accommodate  the  general   election  in                                                              
November.  Therefore, a runoff election  in December would disrupt                                                              
the  current system  of  scheduling, resulting  in  a lower  voter                                                              
turnout  in the  Native community.    If tribal/cultural  activity                                                              
conflicted with   a runoff election, tribal members  would have to                                                              
continue  participation  in their  cultural  events, resulting  in                                                              
less  interest  in  a runoff  election.    Furthermore,  a  runoff                                                              
election would  be costly, and,  therefore, why would  a candidate                                                              
bother with a  rural Alaska campaign?  Mr. Willard  also expressed                                                              
concern from  the ANB  with regard  to who  would be appointed  to                                                              
serve on  the boards and  commissions that  are put together  in a                                                              
hurry [as a result of a governor coming into office late].                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0347                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM  BALDWIN,  Assistant Attorney  General,  Governmental  Affairs                                                              
Section, Civil Division (Juneau),  Department of Law, came forward                                                              
to address some technical aspects  of the resolution.  He referred                                                              
to page 1,  Section 2, where there  is an internal conflict.   The                                                              
first sentence  in that  section is an  existing provision  of the                                                              
state constitution,  he noted, which says that the  term of office                                                              
for the  governor is four  years.  However,  the new  language has                                                              
different start and end dates for the follow-on terms.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN explained  that if  a  governor is  elected during  a                                                              
general election,  which does not require a runoff  election, that                                                              
governor  would   have  a  different   term.    However,   if  the                                                              
aforementioned governor is followed  by a governor that is elected                                                              
at a runoff election, that would  conflict with the four-year-term                                                              
language.   Therefore, it  could be  a legal  problem if  the pre-                                                              
sitting  governor viewed  his/her  term  as being  cut  off.   Mr.                                                              
Baldwin  specified  that  he  didn't  have  a  solution  for  this                                                              
dilemma.    He  pointed  out  that  the  deleted  language  reads,                                                              
"December  four years later,"  which covered  the four-year  term.                                                              
However, under  the new  language, there could  be a  situation in                                                              
which  the  term could  be  shorter  or  longer than  four  years,                                                              
depending upon  the mixture of general-election-elected  governors                                                              
and a runoff-elected governors.   This is a technical problem that                                                              
should be reviewed and solved by the legislative attorneys.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN turned  to possible unintended results  [with SJR 40].                                                              
He noted  that elections adhere to  many time lines  and deadlines                                                              
by law.   He  recalled Judge  Stewart's advice  to this  committee                                                              
that constitutional  amendments are very technical  in nature, and                                                              
the best thing  to do is to  let them sit and consider  the effect                                                              
because  there  could be  unintended  consequences.   Mr.  Baldwin                                                              
referred  to Article I,  Initiatives, in  the state  constitution,                                                              
which  includes  a  provision  addressing  the  referendum.    The                                                              
referendum is  not a process that  is used very much;  it requires                                                              
obtaining many signatures  in a short time.  However,  with groups                                                              
becoming  more  organized  it  is  possible  that  the  referendum                                                              
process could come back into vogue.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN noted that the constitution  says in this section that                                                              
there  are  90   days  after  the  legislature   adjourns  for  an                                                              
organization to  obtain signatures  for its certification  to file                                                              
with the governor.   Once that occurs, [the referendum]  is placed                                                              
on the  first statewide  election  held more than  180 days  after                                                              
adjournment of the legislature.   If such a situation existed this                                                              
year, for example, it would fall  a day after the general election                                                              
and thus  [the referendum]  would perhaps  qualify for  the runoff                                                              
election.     Therefore,  the   unintended  consequence   of  this                                                              
resolution would make  it easier to have a referendum  vote by the                                                              
following January, in this case.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN  said   he  doesn't  believe  that   is  an  intended                                                              
consequence of  [SJR 40].   He pointed out  that this was  what he                                                              
found in the hour  he had to read over the constitution,  and thus                                                              
he  wondered  if there  are  other  unintended consequences.    He                                                              
mentioned  that  he  didn't  have an  opportunity  to  review  the                                                              
election code.  Mr. Baldwin surmised  that Senator Kelly would say                                                              
that  there is  time  to  fix this  because  there  is an  interim                                                              
general  election, then  there would be  a gubernatorial  election                                                              
and there would be an intervening legislative session to fix it.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN said  although that may be a solution,  he isn't sure.                                                              
He suggested that  a solution would be to look  at every reference                                                              
to a statewide election in the constitution  and determine whether                                                              
that language is desired or not,  because the language [in SJR 40]                                                              
has introduced  a strong  distinction between  a general  election                                                              
and a  statewide election.   Furthermore,  the statewide  election                                                              
term is also  used in the initiative section, which  refers to the                                                              
timing of the initiative election  that must be held more than 120                                                              
days after the adjournment of the legislature.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN  pointed  out  that there  is  a  difference  between                                                              
referendums and  elections.  He reiterated that  referendums [must                                                              
be  held] 180  days [after  the adjournment  of the  legislature].                                                              
Referendums occur  when people are unhappy with  a measure enacted                                                              
[by the  legislature]; they  get a  chance to vote  on it.   Under                                                              
this resolution, that will occur  the January following passage of                                                              
the measure, he  indicated.  The way it is now,  however, it would                                                              
occur later than that.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0568                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BALDWIN   informed   the   committee   that   one   of   his                                                              
responsibilities at  the Department [of  Law] is to deal  with the                                                              
preclearance  of election  changes, which  would be required  with                                                              
[SJR 40].   He noted  that he has  always thought that  amendments                                                              
such  as this  should  include a  dependent  effective date  which                                                              
acknowledges   that   the   amendment's   provisions   cannot   be                                                              
implemented  until   they  have   been  precleared  by   the  U.S.                                                              
Department of  Justice or a court.   Therefore, he said,  it might                                                              
be appropriate  to have an  effective date that  acknowledges that                                                              
preclearance is necessary.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0677                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES remarked  that if  there were a  referendum,                                                              
there could be a large turnout for  the runoff election.  She said                                                              
that she understood Mr. Baldwin's concern.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  pointed out that  there could be referendum  election                                                              
with a very small turnout, however,  and therefore the legislature                                                              
wouldn't necessarily receive the full opinion of the people.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES  restated that the number of  people who come                                                              
out to vote is  very distressing to her.  She  offered her opinion                                                              
that a  second chance at  a gubernatorial election  might persuade                                                              
more people to vote.   She said she is willing  to try anything in                                                              
order to get people involved in the political process.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0772                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  returned to the preclearance  aspect and                                                              
asked how that would work procedurally.   She posed a situation in                                                              
which SJR 40  is passed by this legislature, is  before the voters                                                              
in  November, and  passes.   She surmised  that it  would then  go                                                              
before  the U.S.  Department  of Justice  for  preclearance.   She                                                              
inquired as to the chance that the preclearance would be denied.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN said it is hard for him  to say.  That day's testimony                                                              
has indicated that the minority voters  may claim that there would                                                              
be some retrogression in their voice  in the process.  Mr. Baldwin                                                              
explained  how  preclearance  would   work.    [The  state]  would                                                              
petition the U.S.  Department of Justice to preclear,  which is an                                                              
administrative process.   Although the U.S. Department  of Justice                                                              
has 60  days, the department  can request more  information, which                                                              
starts  the clock again.   Therefore,  the process  can be  spread                                                              
out.   However,  at  some point  action  must be  taken.   If  the                                                              
department  decides not  to preclear  it, the  law cannot go  into                                                              
effective, but  there is  the option to  proceed to a  three-judge                                                              
panel  in the  D.C.  Circuit Court  in  order  to obtain  judicial                                                              
preclearance.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0866                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  reiterated  that  since  the  amendment                                                              
would not  be in place,  there would not  be an opportunity  for a                                                              
runoff  election in  which to  determine  whether any  individuals                                                              
have been disenfranchised.   The preclearance would be  based on a                                                              
situation  that  has  not  yet  happened.    Whether  or  not  any                                                              
individuals had  been disenfranchised  would be speculative.   She                                                              
surmised that it would, essentially,  entail taking affidavits and                                                              
testimony from  individuals, and the three-judge  panel would rule                                                              
based on that.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0913                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN responded  that the Department of  Justice could force                                                              
[the state] to  go that way if the department  didn't preclear it.                                                              
The  only other  alternative would  be  to go  to the  three-judge                                                              
panel.  The cases involve the use  of statistical theory, sampling                                                              
and experts in  trying to disprove or prove a  case, he explained,                                                              
and  the  state  has  the  burden  of  preclearing  these  things.                                                              
Furthermore,  the   Department  of  Justice  Department   is  very                                                              
militant  about protecting  the rights  of minority  voters.   Mr.                                                              
Baldwin pointed out that HJR 44,  passed in a prior year to change                                                              
the  reapportionment   process,  still  hasn't   been  precleared,                                                              
although  the  state  is  still working  with  the  Department  of                                                              
Justice on that.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN again  suggested having  an effective  date on  these                                                              
types  of  resolutions to  reflect  the  true  state of  the  law,                                                              
because they currently take effect  after 45 days or when they are                                                              
precleared  by a court,  whichever is  later.   He said  he thinks                                                              
maybe this  should be  placed in  the drafting  to make  it clear,                                                              
until "we get  out from underneath Section 5 of  the Voting Rights                                                              
Act."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  indicated that might  be an argument  to get                                                              
these [resolutions]  done and  to the people  right away.   To his                                                              
understanding, both Georgia and Arizona  have both been precleared                                                              
on the majority  voting rights, although he understands  that this                                                              
is not a guarantee  that Alaska would be [precleared].   He stated                                                              
that  while he is  not a  Native, he  has been  in several  Native                                                              
villages during the wintertime.   He finds it difficult to believe                                                              
that  voting a  third  time [in  one year]  would  be a  hardship,                                                              
because it would be at the very time  when people will probably be                                                              
closest  to  the  voting  polls.   With  the  more  modern  voting                                                              
techniques, he  said it seems that  would help the Natives  in the                                                              
rural  villages  because  of [word-of-mouth]  communication.    He                                                              
commented:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Those  people are  not disenfranchised  so much as  just                                                                   
     maybe  their decision  not  to vote,  but  that's not  a                                                                   
     disenfranchisement,  that's just an attitude  of whether                                                                   
     they  do or  don't.   But it  certainly is  going to  be                                                                   
     convenient for  them.  I think the mere fact  of what it                                                                   
     is that they're  voting for, we're now down  to just two                                                                   
     candidates, and  this is for  the number one job  in the                                                                   
     state of number one jobs in  the nation.  We need to get                                                                   
     out and vote.  Our vote does count.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1106                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  emphasized the good  record of comments  and evidence                                                              
needed  to  preclear these  issues  with  the U.S.  Department  of                                                              
Justice.    A record  should  be  created  for changes  in  voting                                                              
procedures, he explained.   This helps with preclearance  and does                                                              
not  hurt "us".   When  it  has to  be done  after  the fact,  the                                                              
legislature  feels powerless  in the effort  to do  that.   It has                                                              
been  expressed   to  him   that  legislators   wish  they   could                                                              
participate  more in that  process.   He said,  "Now is  the time,                                                              
when it's  here in committee,  to create  those records."   When a                                                              
resolution goes through  a committee [rapidly] like it  is now, he                                                              
noted, there is not an opportunity  to create a record that can be                                                              
taken to U.S. Department of Justice  to show that the interests of                                                              
minority voters have been considered.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1187                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  pointed out that  Article 3, Sections  3 and                                                              
4, of the  Constitution of the  State of Alaska, does  not include                                                              
"as  prescribed  by law".    He referred  to  Section  2 of  CSSJR
40(RLS) am, which read:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Section 4.  Term of Office.   The term of office  of the                                                                 
     governor is four  years.  If the governor  is elected at                                                               
     the general  election, the term begins [,  BEGINNING] at                                                               
     noon  on the  first  Monday  in December  following  the                                                               
     [HIS]  election.  If  the governor  is  elected  at  the                                                               
     runoff election,  the term begins  [AND ENDING]  at noon                                                               
     on the  third [FIRST] Monday  in February following  the                                                           
     election, unless otherwise provided  by law.  It ends at                                                               
     noon  on  the  day  when  the  term  of  office  of  the                                                               
     governor's   successor   begins   under   this   section                                                               
     [DECEMBER FOUR YEARS LATER].                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  said  it  appears  that  the  term  of  the                                                              
governor can  be prescribed by law.   Senator Kelly  had indicated                                                              
that it  could be  shortened up if  changes could  be made  in the                                                              
election; it could  be decided that it could be April  or May, and                                                              
that it  could be  changed from  year to  year.   The term  of the                                                              
previous governor  could "grow or  collapse to shrink  that," even                                                              
though the  first sentence states that  the term of office  of the                                                              
governor is  four years.   He asked Mr.  Baldwin how he  reads the                                                              
sentence, "If the governor is elected  at the runoff election, the                                                              
term begins at noon on the third  Monday in February following the                                                              
election, unless otherwise provided by law."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1269                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  answered, "In  my study of  the minutes of  the prior                                                              
meetings,  I  think the  intention  there is  to  try  to do  what                                                              
Senator Kelly said, to allow kind  of a safety valve to adjust for                                                              
the changing  of the terms like that."   He said he  would presume                                                              
that the legislature will always  act in good faith when it enacts                                                              
these  laws.   He  also said  he understands  what  Representative                                                              
Croft is  saying about  allowing for  a change in  the terms.   He                                                              
indicated the  problem he  has is still  with the first  sentence,                                                              
which states the  term shall be four years.  He  added, "But later                                                              
on,  it seems  to take  away from  that, and  that's the  internal                                                              
inconsistency that I'm worried about."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN  wondered what  would  happen  if  a governor  had  a                                                              
truncated term and refused to leave  until the four years were up.                                                              
He said he hopes there could be a  way to resolve this so there is                                                              
not that conflict.   It is a technical problem  that the committee                                                              
can take care.  He indicated he does  not have an answer on how to                                                              
take  care of  it because  there  are other  problems that  people                                                              
tried to anticipate and fix in earlier  committees.  He commented,                                                              
"That's  why this  thing is  starting  to look  like it's  getting                                                              
baling-wired together here."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  said it  would  make  him very  nervous  to                                                              
remove the  sentence which states that  the term of office  of the                                                              
governor is  four years because he  thinks some mischief  could be                                                              
done with  that end of  the term by  letting "them go  another two                                                              
years cause we don't like the one that was just elected."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN indicated  there could also be  continuing litigation,                                                              
where a court would have to allow a governor to be seated.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1448                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KERTTULA  pointed   out  that   there  were   two                                                              
testifiers earlier  who feel they  would be disenfranchised.   She                                                              
asked  what was  on the  record so  far that  would indicate  that                                                              
would not happen.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN indicated this is the  first time that minority voters                                                              
have testified on this resolution, to his knowledge.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  asked   what  kind  of  data  have  been                                                              
gathered, statistical  or otherwise, on that issue.   She wondered                                                              
how that is actually done.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  replied that he does  not know yet.   Typically, they                                                              
keep track  of the  turnouts.   He added,  "I'm sitting  here, I'm                                                              
listening to this  testimony for the first time  trying to picture                                                              
what their  case would be."  He  commented that if there  are some                                                              
cultural reasons why  [minority voters] would not  be available in                                                              
January, then the  U.S. Department of Justice,  for example, would                                                              
be very interested  in that information; problems at  that time of                                                              
year with the  distribution of ballots, such as in  rural areas of                                                              
Alaska,  are issues  for  the Division  of  Elections.   The  U.S.                                                              
Department of  Justice would  also be interested  in that  type of                                                              
information.  Ballots in the rural  areas are mostly hand-counted;                                                              
handling  of those  ballots  is different  than  dealing with  the                                                              
Accu-Vote  system.   Mr. Baldwin  restated that  he isn't sure  of                                                              
what the facts are at this point in time.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1560                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  asked,  "If  it's  the  state's  burden,                                                              
shouldn't that be  information that we should know  before we make                                                              
this vote go?"                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN answered  yes.  He said he thinks  that is information                                                              
that should be  developed in the committee as part  of the record.                                                              
He  explained  that  when  HJR  44   was  to  be  precleared,  the                                                              
Department  of Justice  had asked  for every scrap  of paper  that                                                              
made  up  the  legislative  history  of  HJR 44  and  SB  99;  the                                                              
department  had  wanted  to  know   whether  minority  voters  had                                                              
communicated with the legislature  and whether the legislature had                                                              
reached out  to the  minority voters  during the consideration  of                                                              
both  measures.   The department  had  said, "It's  not just  good                                                              
enough to have the minutes of your  committees.  We want you to go                                                              
out  and transcribe  every  hearing  that  was held,  every  floor                                                              
debate   that  was   held  on  the   bill.     We  want   verbatim                                                              
transcriptions."  Mr.  Baldwin said [the state] did  that as well.                                                              
He pointed out  that the Department of Justice  is very interested                                                              
in the  legislative process, which  is extremely important  in the                                                              
preclearance.   For  this  reason, he  implored  the committee  to                                                              
consider developing  a very good record, but he  cautioned that it                                                              
was awfully late in the session to do that now.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1651                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  commented  that  he  is  not  intimately                                                              
familiar  with the  Voting Rights  Act.   He asked  what the  U.S.                                                              
Department of Justice looks at.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN replied that the Department  [of Justice] looks at the                                                              
effect on the minority voters.  If  there is no effect on minority                                                              
voting, then it is usually outside their area of consideration.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if it  is true that  the Department                                                              
[of  Justice] is  concerned only  with  the voting  rights of  the                                                              
minority, not the majority.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN  responded  that  those  were  not  his  words.    He                                                              
clarified that if  it doesn't have any effect on  a minority, then                                                              
there  will  not  be  a  preclearance  problem.    If  it  has  an                                                              
unintended effect on minority voters,  however, [the Department of                                                              
Justice] will take their action based on that.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1749                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES requested a definition of minority voters.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  explained that  minority voters  in Alaska  are those                                                              
who have another language.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES wondered if  that includes everyone who has a                                                              
second language or just Natives.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN stated  that Natives and African-Americans  qualify in                                                              
other contexts  under the  law.   Principally, the term  "minority                                                              
voter" applies  to the Native voter  in Alaska.  This is  the main                                                              
minority voting classification in Alaska.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES  asked whether  it  matters  where they  are                                                              
located in the state.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN said it does not.  In  some states, there are counties                                                              
that are subject  to Section 5 [of the Voting Rights  Act] and not                                                              
the whole state.   However, the entire state of  Alaska is covered                                                              
by Section 5.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1842                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  KOTT  asked  whether  Mr. Baldwin  had  testified  in  a                                                              
previous committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  replied that  others from the  Department of  Law had                                                              
testified earlier on  the resolution.  However, this  is the first                                                              
time he has  testified.  When  asked by Chairman Kott  whether the                                                              
issues  he had  testified about  had been  addressed earlier,  Mr.                                                              
Baldwin indicated  the referendum  issue had  not been  brought up                                                              
previously; that was  an issue that the Division  of Elections had                                                              
asked  him to  look at  because he  handles  most of  the work  on                                                              
voting  rights  and  does  a lot  of  work  with  initiatives  and                                                              
referenda.   He concluded,  "So, I looked  at it specifically  for                                                              
this and  I noticed  this problem.   I  think it's  a problem.   I                                                              
mean, if you don't care about it,  then it's not a problem, but if                                                              
you happen  to care about  referendums, it  might be a  problem if                                                              
you're  adding another  election  to the  mix here  and when  that                                                              
referendum election might occur."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1943                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if anyone else  wished to testify, then closed                                                              
public testimony on the resolution.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if there was anyone  available from                                                              
the sponsor's office.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT told members he was  hoping to find someone from the                                                              
sponsor's  office or  someone who  could  speak on  behalf of  the                                                              
sponsor to  answer some questions.   He called an at-ease  at 3:35                                                              
p.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT  called the meeting back  to order at 3:55  p.m. and                                                              
then immediately  recessed the House Judiciary  Standing Committee                                                              
to the call of the chair. [Not on tape.]                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-70, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT brought  the meeting back to order  at approximately                                                              
7:45 p.m.  Present at that time were  Representatives Kott, Green,                                                              
Rokeberg  and   Croft.     Representatives  James,   Kerttula  and                                                              
Murkowski  arrived shortly  thereafter.   [Newly  provided to  the                                                              
committee were a memorandum to Senator  Kelly from Jack Chenoweth,                                                              
Assistant Revisor of Statutes, dated  April 20, 2000; and a letter                                                              
in opposition to SJR 40 from Julie  Kitka, president of the Alaska                                                              
Federation of Natives, Inc. (AFN).]                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  KOTT  referred  to concerns  addressed  by  Mr.  Baldwin                                                              
earlier  that  day.     Alluding  to  the  memorandum   from  Jack                                                              
Chenoweth,  he indicated  it answers  the  first question  dealing                                                              
with the language  in Section 4 of CSSJR 40(RLS)am,  regarding any                                                              
possible confusion over  the term of office.  He  noted that there                                                              
also had been  discussion about putting in an  effective date that                                                              
would be tied to preclearance [by  the U.S. Department of Justice]                                                              
or the courts.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0106                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY, referring to the second  concern, said he had never                                                              
seen that  done before.  He  commented, "They either say  'yes' or                                                              
they don't."   He then asked whether Mr. Baldwin  had informed the                                                              
committee   about  whether   [the  Department   of  Justice]   had                                                              
precleared the apportionment constitutional amendment.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT answered that they had not.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0138                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN apologized  for  having missed  some of  the                                                              
earlier  portion  of  the  meeting.   He  asked  about  the  issue                                                              
regarding a four-year term.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated Mr. Chenoweth's  letter resolves that.  He                                                              
added that  those were  the only  two issues,  and he thinks  that                                                              
they have been resolved.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0208                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted that  he had also stepped out of the                                                              
room for a few moments when Mr. Baldwin  was testifying.  He asked                                                              
whether Mr.  Baldwin had  said there are  other references  in the                                                              
constitution that would need to be conformed.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether that  was during the discussion on the                                                              
referendum.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES and REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG affirmed that.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  KOTT said  that may have  consequences  but is a  policy                                                              
call.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG explained  that  he wanted  to make  sure                                                              
that there was nothing else that Mr. Baldwin had brought up.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY  commented that he  would be seriously  surprised if                                                              
somebody  brought  in a  bundle  of  initiatives right  after  the                                                              
general election  so that they could  get onto a  runoff [ballot].                                                              
But if they did, so what?  It would just increase the turnout.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  whether it  was for a  referendum,                                                              
however, not an initiative.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES affirmed that.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SEVERAL UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS said, "Whatever."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0293                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  noted  that this  resolution  had  once                                                              
included federal  candidates as well.   She asked why it  has been                                                              
narrowed down to just the gubernatorial candidates.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY answered that the federal  candidates were "put into                                                              
one of  the committees  in the  Senate, kind  of on  a whim."   He                                                              
explained that  the federal  candidates bring  in a whole  host of                                                              
new questions.   For  example, a  federal law  requires voting  on                                                              
congressional  candidates  to  occur  on  the  second  Tuesday  of                                                              
November.  He continued:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     We were  concerned about the  gubernatorial race  ... in                                                                   
     particular.   You  cannot reach the  governor's race  by                                                                   
     initiative  petition in the  State of  Alaska.  You  can                                                                   
     reach   congressional   races,   and   you   can   reach                                                                   
     legislative races  by the initiative.   The only  way to                                                                   
     reach  the governor  and lieutenant  governor's race  is                                                                   
     through a  constitutional amendment.   So we  decided to                                                                   
     concentrate on the race, frankly, closer to home.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The   other   problem,   if  you   get   involved   with                                                                   
     congressional  races in a runoff,  is that you  run into                                                                   
     the  Twentieth  Amendment  problem,  where  Congress  is                                                                   
     supposed to convene every year  on January 3rd.  And you                                                                   
     could  be sitting here,  having your  person stuck  in a                                                                   
     runoff,   and  they're   back   there  organizing,   and                                                                   
     everybody gets sworn in, and  they've all got seniority,                                                                   
     and  your person's  still out  here,  you know,  running                                                                   
     around the  East Side of Anchorage.   And he,  you know,                                                                   
     gets  back there  a month  late.   And as  we all  know,                                                                   
     seniority is everything back there.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     So, we didn't  really want to put any new  - potentially                                                                   
     new  -  congressional representatives  from  Alaska  ...                                                                   
     behind a potential eight ball  on a runoff election. ...                                                                   
     And, of  course, we're  solid at  the current time,  but                                                                   
     any  new people  that go  back there  should have  every                                                                   
     advantage of being there with  everybody, being there at                                                                   
     the same time ... everybody is.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  KOTT asked whether  there were  additional questions  of                                                              
the sponsor; none were offered.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0480                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  made a motion to move SJR  40 [CSSJR 40(RLS)                                                              
am]  out of  committee  with  individual recommendations  and  the                                                              
attached fiscal note.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT objected.   He explained  that judging  from                                                              
Alaska's history,  this will require  many governors to  run three                                                              
times  - in  the  primary, general  and  runoff  elections.   That                                                              
increases  the cost  of elections  to both  the state  and to  the                                                              
individual.   It  will mean  longer election  cycles and  multiple                                                              
election cycles.  He doesn't see  the people of Alaska saying that                                                              
elections are  too cheap,  too short or  too few.   Conversely, he                                                              
believes that voter  turnout in the runoff elections  will be low;                                                              
they  will be  in  the  dead of  winter,  when people  would  have                                                              
already gone  through two  elections.  He  worries that  the state                                                              
will  get the  exact  opposite  result of  what  they  seem to  be                                                              
shooting for - a governor chosen by more of the people.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  addressed the comment of Senator  Kelly that                                                              
the  state  doesn't  want  to  put  the  congressional  delegation                                                              
"behind the  eight ball  by being late."   He suggested  that this                                                              
resolution effectively  puts governors  behind the eight  ball, as                                                              
well,  in that  it  is  a substantial  shift  in the  balance  [of                                                              
power].  There will be a governor  [taking office] after a runoff,                                                              
without having  been able to  assemble, at least  provisionally, a                                                              
cabinet or budget, or being able  to get ready to work by the time                                                              
the legislature  goes into  session.  He  thinks that  will become                                                              
the standard situation.  Furthermore,  in some cases, the governor                                                              
won't  even  have  been  elected   by  the  time  the  legislature                                                              
convenes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  cautioned, on  a  general  level, that  the                                                              
legislature   ought  to  be   more  careful  with   constitutional                                                              
amendments.  This resolution had  been introduced only three weeks                                                              
ago, to  his knowledge.   He  agreed with  Judge Stewart,  who has                                                              
often talked  about an idea  - an internal  rule, of sorts  - that                                                              
constitutional  amendments ought  to  be introduced  in the  first                                                              
[year of a] session  and passed in the second, so  that there is a                                                              
full interim  for legislators  to  evaluate the  effect.  He  said                                                              
that from what he can tell, SJR 40  is a bad idea, but at least it                                                              
shouldn't be done this quickly.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0679                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  told fellow  members  that the  greatest                                                              
problem she  has [with SJR  40] is that  the only testimony  about                                                              
impacts on minorities  had come from Mr. Angasan  and Mr. Willard;                                                              
both  had said  there  would  be  culturally problems  that  would                                                              
affect the  voter turnout in the  Native community.  With  that as                                                              
the only evidence  in this record at this point,  she suggested it                                                              
would  be difficult  to  get preclearance.    She  noted that  the                                                              
letter from  Ms. Kitka of  the AFN doesn't  speak to  the cultural                                                              
aspects   or  concerns   about  turnout;   rather,  it   addresses                                                              
constitutional problems.   "When  Mr. Baldwin talks  about holding                                                              
things together  with baling  wire, I'm  afraid that that's  where                                                              
this is headed," she concluded. "So I can't support it."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0734                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  noted  that  he  had  briefly  read  Ms.                                                              
Kitka's letter  from the AFN.   He said he doesn't  understand how                                                              
this  resolution would,  in  any way,  affect  Alaskan Natives  or                                                              
other residents.   He  added, "As  Representative Green  mentioned                                                              
earlier,  ...  many  villages  of Alaska  are  smaller  and  self-                                                              
contained,  and particularly in  the wintertime,  and I  don't see                                                              
the difficulties of going to the  polls or of voter interest."  He                                                              
said it would  be interesting to see an analysis  of voter turnout                                                              
there versus other areas of the state.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY suggested that if this  passes, groups from all over                                                              
the state  would speak  on it, and  there would  be a huge  public                                                              
debate that would  build the kind of record that  Mr. Baldwin says                                                              
is necessary to go before the Department  of Justice.  People will                                                              
"talk" at the ballot box, where the decision will be made.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0880                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  told  fellow  members  that she  has  a                                                              
couple  of   concerns  with   the  resolution.     First   is  the                                                              
implementation  aspect, although  some concerns  have been  worked                                                              
through,  and  there  are  things that  the  legislature  can  do,                                                              
statutorily,  down the  road regarding  the  time frame  involved.                                                              
She suggested  it is really important  to look at  that, including                                                              
the  lag  between  when  the legislature  convenes  and  when  the                                                              
governor would  be in place with  his or her commissioners  and so                                                              
forth.   That is  both a  concern to  the legislature  and to  the                                                              
public.   "I would like  to think that there's  a way that  we can                                                              
work through that," she added.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI noted that  her other concern, looking at                                                              
the history,  is that the  state will  have three elections  - the                                                              
primary,  the general  and  the runoff.    The  public already  is                                                              
annoyed by the  campaign season, and voter apathy  already exists.                                                              
She cautioned  that lengthening the  campaign season  may engender                                                              
greater apathy among voters.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1005                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG   noted  that  according   to  statistics                                                              
provided  by the Division  of Elections,  only  25 percent  of the                                                              
last eight  [gubernatorial] elections  had resulted in  a majority                                                              
vote [for the winning candidate].                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1051                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES  brought attention  to  Ms. Kitka's  letter.                                                              
She said she is insulted by the line  that says this is an attempt                                                              
by  irresponsible  officeholders  to entrench  themselves  and  to                                                              
upset the balance  of powers; she believes it is  improper to make                                                              
those  statements.   Furthermore,  she  isn't so  convinced,  from                                                              
conversations with folks, that this  [process] will keep them from                                                              
turning out  to vote.   On the contrary,  she believes  people may                                                              
vote in even higher numbers.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES continued.    She suggested  that if  people                                                              
have the  opportunity to "get the  second bite at it,"  they would                                                              
be able to vote for someone they  prefer over the other candidate.                                                              
When people are  elected by less than 50 percent  of the vote, she                                                              
has heard comments  that more than half of the  people didn't want                                                              
that person  elected; she  expressed concern  over having  the top                                                              
position in the  state being elected that way.  If  it is a little                                                              
more trouble, costly  and time consuming, she  still believes this                                                              
will ensure  that the [governor]  has the  support of most  of the                                                              
people who  voted.  Although in  the second runoff  election there                                                              
may be fewer  voters, there could  be more; that is unknown.   She                                                              
emphasized the need to get people out to vote.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1202                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN told members,  "Just in summary, I would just                                                              
suggest  that while  we did  hear from  Natives themselves  saying                                                              
that this would  be an imposition and unfairness  to them, I still                                                              
challenge  that  statement  because   of  having  been  to  Native                                                              
villages."   He  referred to  statistics from  Arizona, where  the                                                              
figures had dropped from 58 percent  to 50 percent in that state's                                                              
try  at  this  system.    He  noted  that  Alaska's  governor,  by                                                              
constitutional design,  has much more authority  than governors in                                                              
many  other  states.    Although  that is  good,  he  agrees  with                                                              
Representative James that the governor  should be elected by 50 or                                                              
more percent of the voters.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  KOTT asked whether  there was  further discussion,  then                                                              
requested a roll call vote.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Voting to  move SJR 40  [CSSJR 40(RLS)  am] out of  committee were                                                              
Representatives  Rokeberg,  James,   Murkowski,  Green  and  Kott.                                                              
Voting  against  it  were  Representatives   Croft  and  Kerttula.                                                              
Therefore,  CSSJR 40(RLS) am  was moved  from the House  Judiciary                                                              
Standing Committee by a vote of 5-2.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1324                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 8:05 p.m.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                

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